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hat_plays_simsOkay, so this is an entry with no real Sims-related content, but it's going to have a lot of Medieval-related content. See, one of my pet peeves in any kind of historical costuming whatsoever is when people get mixed up on the 'historical' part-- saying 'Medieval' when they mean 'Lord of the Rings' or that a dress pattern works just as well for the Renaissance as for the French Revolution or the Victorian era... or thinking that 'fairy tale' is the same thing as 'historical.' (Another pet peeve is mixing your decades on Victorian crap, but that's a minor thing as relates to Sims 2.)
So this post is more of a guide to Medieval fashion than anything else, for my own reference, for anyone else who's interested, and in the hopes that some novice mesh-maker will look at some of the hats and go "I could make that. I could make that and Medieval Simmers would shower me with praise!" Because there aren't enough hats.
Sims and Fantasy
First of all, Sims 2 really does have a very strong fantasy element right from the get-go-- we have aliens, zombies, vampires, werewolves, plant-people, Bigfoot, genies, and witches; satellites fall from space, men get pregnant, the Grim Reaper carries a cellular telephone, and, dude, cowplant. Period games suffer from the fact that you basically need a telephone, and there are certain animation limitations that mean certain styles of clothing are right out. In fact, since Sims use forks, a perfectly Medieval game is impossible (forks didn't come into wide use until the Renaissance... and on their introduction, were considered an exceedingly fussy, off-putting, and more than a little ridiculous affectation of the idle super-rich. That's right: eating with forks was the very-late-Medieval/early Renaissance version of carting a lapdog around in your purse).
So really, there's no absolute need to be as picky as this post suggests I'm being. I'm actually NOT that picky; I have some things in my game I know darn well aren't Medieval (for example, All About Style's Victorian corseted underwear) that I wouldn't give up because I find it too pretty or it adds some variety to a clothing category that would otherwise be pretty monotonous (white or off-white shirts and shifts for all classes).
On the other hand, one way to absolutely guarantee that your game will be historically inaccurate is to avoid any kind of research whatsoever and just download anything Some Random Uploader bills as 'Medieval...' or 'Medieval/Renaissance.' It's far too easy, just cruising MTS's Medieval tag, to end up with a mix of Medieval, Renaissance, Fantasy, Hollywood History, and Halloween Costumes in your game. It ends up looking like the kind of Renaissance Faire where the employees and some of the attendees are dressed in perfect period, some of the attendees are trying hard and falling a little short, some of the attendees are dressed as Disney princesses and Hot Topic fairies, and there are a lot of people wandering around in jeans and T-shirts, plus there's always that one guy who always shows up dressed as Commander Riker, pretending he's on the holodeck.
And, you know what, if that's what you want for a Fantasy or Fairy-Tale theme, that's still awesome (ever seen Into the Woods? It was on PBS's Great Performances, you can find it on DVD at places like Suncoast or Best Buy, if you're in the States. The costuming is inspired, and it borrows from every era from Medieval (the Baker's Wife's hat is a toque) to that odd little period between Empire and Victorian right around 1820. But it all looks like fairy tales and it all works). Even if you're playing a Sims-themed historical game, you're still good, because Sims do not live in this world players are allowed to adjust their world history to suit their own tastes.
But the rule of thumb I personally try to follow is "Look it up, then make it up." The better you understand the look of the era you're collecting for-- or creating for!-- the more you'll know which rules you want to break, and how, when it comes time to break the rules.
Another thing working against historical accuracy is the absolute breadth of the Medieval period. Normally, when we talk about the Middle Ages, we mean throughout the continent of Europe, any time between 400 and 1500. That's a hell of a lot to cover... and while it's fewer changes in fashion than you might think, the regional differences could be pretty significant.
My solution is to not worry about any date before 1400 (simply because I don't like the styles after 1400 quite as well), restrict certain styles to my vacation and Downtown 'hoods, and hope the rest comes out looking like a Society for Creative Anachronism event, where everyone is in the best-researched garb they can afford even if they are all from different periods and places. And then I fudge a lot on underwear, swimwear, and toddlers. If I can ever find meshes for fifteenth century menswear, I'll probably add that, too-- it's the 1400s womenswear I'm not keen on.
Anyway, this isn't about hard and fast rules, but about a more accurate vision of Medieval clothing to use as a foundation before asking questions like "Now, can this work within the limits of the game?"
Medieval Clothing is not...
Printed. There were no prints, no matter how charming they were-- and no matter what you might guess from period paintings. If there appears to be a print in the cloth, it is either woven in (brocade, very expensive) or embroidered. Printed fabrics became feasible during the Empire/Napoleonic era. Something like gingham existed, but I've only seen it used on pillows, not clothing, in period paintings. (EDIT: There were stamped fabrics, I have lately found out, but it was more like being painted with dye than the seamless roller-printing that started in the late 1700s/early 1800s, and that we're used to today.)
Corseted. I haven't found much on in-period bras (EDIT: I now know that in-period bras were basically breast-binding-- strips of linen wound around the body, over the chemise but under the under-dress. The bust was either smushed mostly flat or, in a feat of fashion that the clergy decried, pushed upward to create cleavage-- necessary for the look of those Burgundian gowns), but unlike many other eras, there's not much in the way of underpinnings. No corsets, no stays, no bodices. That's right, no bodices. So many, many Simmers put Ren Faire style bodices on their stuff, and I download it, too, because there's not nearly enough stuff without them. Sometimes you'll see a period reproduction gown with a contrasting thing that looks like a cinch belt, usually with a longer fabric belt wrapped around it. This is a very charming look called a bliaut... but there's some debate over whether it's accurate or a Victorian invention. Which leads me to...
Victorian. Medieval clothing is not Victorian. No hoop skirts, no crinolines, no bustles, no corsets, no bonnets, no high-button boots... and no looking at Victorian paintings as accurate representations of Medieval fashion, because the Victorians were just as bad about faking it and fantasy as we are today-- sometimes worse. (Are the paintings charming? Oh heck yes. Are they accurate? Um, no.)
Trousered, which is a horribly fake word. Pants, trousers, pantaloons, pantalettes, bloomers, all this crap wastotally relatively unknown. Breeches and slops came into fashion during the Renaissance, when Pantalone was an Italian comedia character; long pants as we know them are yet another French Revolution invention. Medieval men wore hose. Hose and tunics, hose and robes, silk hose, wool hose, knit hose, solid hose, parti-colored hose, (vertically) striped hose, but they wore hose. (Edit: In all fairness, some cultures did wear trousers-- Vikings, for example-- but I'll admit I generally think of France as far as fashion goes (there were significant regional differences as well as differences from one end of the era to the other). The main thing to keep in mind is that a shapely leg was considered an important aspect of male beauty throughout the Middle Ages, and pretty much on up until the French Revolution, when knee-breeches started to fall out of fashion.)
Medieval Clothing is...
Layered. There was no central heating, and though straw insulation worked fairly well, there was no weatherstripping, either, and most people couldn't afford glass for their windows. (Or couldn't afford to glaze arrow-slits and have them busted by the archers every time somebody stormed the castle.) Start with a chemise and hose, gartered at the knee, for a woman. Now add an underdress in a pretty color, with long sleeves. Now add a dress over that in another pretty color, with short or long, open, decorative sleeves. It's reasonable to stop there, but if it's cooler and you've only done the short-sleeved dress, add another overdress with the more decorative sleeves in yet another color. There could still be a mantle or shawl involved if it's cold, and a cloak for going outside. Men would have on hose, braises (underwear), a shirt, a tunic, or an undertunic and overtunic... or robe... And when you add armor into it, you're looking at a shirt, wool and leather padding, armor (I am not qualified to guess about armor, but since this is for Sims and there are only so many meshes, I'm not going to be picky, either), and a surcoat with your heraldry or your lord's heraldry displayed.
Colorful! Not neon or bright crayola colors, but good vegetable dyes in colors like the ones in this entry were readily available and much-used. A good bright saffron yellow is possible, too, just not displayed there (and pricey). Purple, however, was a very expensive dye until synthetic dyes were produced, worth its weight and sometimes more in gold. In the middle ages, purple was associated with royalty, but also allowed to the nobility... and to doctors. For everyone else, it was forbidden in most of Europe... which is kind of like saying "Despite the fact that only I and a select few other rich lawmakers can afford diamond-encrusted pony rockets, it is illegal to own one unless you are a rich lawmaker... or a doctor." There was a cheap black dye available, made from walnuts and iron, but I am given to understand it wasn't very popular (in no small part because it weakened the fibers, making a garment that should have lasted ten or twenty years last only five with constant wear and washing).
Very similar in cut, in the early period. For about the first half of the middle ages, everybody, rich and poor, wore clothes of a very similar design. The poor used cheaper fabrics while the rich used more costly stuff, and frequently the rich used more fabric, too-- robes instead of tunics, more fullness or a train to a skirt. (No petticoats-- the skirt didn't stand out, simply hung in more folds.) Then towards the middle of the period (what historians call the High Middle Ages), a funny thing called 'the rise of the middle class' started happening. You didn't have to own land and vassals and collect taxes to have a fortune; instead you could import or practice medicine or generally be a master at something else. There was another point between 'rich' and 'poor' and 'the church,' and it was merchants... and they could afford silk and velvet and brocade and the best linen and wool, too. After all, clothes were clothes, and if you kept a garment in good repair, it wasn't like you had to stop wearing it... And that's when the nobility developed fashion and planned obsolescence, as a way to set themselves apart from the middle class. If a very expensive dress is going to be out of style, only the kind of thing a dowdy would wear, in a handful of years, then only the very rich can afford to wear it. So if you find yourself with only a few meshes in your downloads folder, that's probably why.
Laced and spiral-laced. No, there were no corsets, but yes, things were still laced up-- up the sides, the back, the front. These days, we lace everything in a crossover type pattern, but it used to be all spiral-laced, which does have a certain charm. Why were things laced? Because buttons were expensive (horn or metal) or fiddly (cloth)-- but known!-- and I doubt hooks and eyes, much less zippers or snaps, hadn't been invented yet. Lacing was cheaper, because unlike modern laced garments, there were no grommets (also called eyelets)-- just thread buttonhole-stitched around little holes in the fabric, which were sometimes reinforced with metal rings if the garment was going to be put under a lot of stress. The earliest corsets, called stays and developed in the seventeenth century, were made of quilted linen, buckram, horsehair, and whalebone or wood, and could easily go through a modern metal detector. (Okay, okay, if you had a lot to support in the front, you might go for a steel busk instead of a wooden or whalebone one.) And don't listen to Elizabeth Swann-- corsets and stays were designed to be supportive but still allow a woman to work and move, although there was often difficulty in bending at the waist-- you're supposed to lift with your legs anyway. You couldn't get your stays too tightly laced, because if you put too much strain on those stitched eyelets, they'd tear them out like ripping a piece of paper out of a spiral notebook. Metal grommets, invented in 1828, were much stronger and less likely to tear, and allowed the Victorian tight-lacing trend to happen.
Embroidered! Even the peasants had trim on their necklines, either embroidered directly or tablet-woven. If you were a woman of high enough birth, embroidery was one of the things you did to avoid sitting idle.
Reproductions of Medieval Clothing
Why reproductions? Because, first of all, go and google for Medieval paintings or Medieval portraits. An image search will net you a TON of stuff, and before long you'll be able to spot on sight which paintings are actually Medieval and which are Victorian paintings of people in Medieval-ish costumes. Second, because reproductions usually give more than one view, and are less idealized than portraits somebody paid a great deal of money to have done.
First on the list, because it's my most recent find and makes me the most happy, is Kat's Hats. There are no meshes quite like these in the Sims 2 community, and it makes me sad, and I would do many, many things for some of those pre-1400 styles for my Sim ladies.
Revival Clothing, a marvelous source-- lookit the shoes!
Haandkraft is a source for things other than clothing, really... but the look of everything is just too good not to share.
There's not a whole lot on Matilda La Zouche's Wardrobe, but what is there is very well-photographed.
Medieval Silkwork is a marvelous place for embroidery, trim, and hair covering pictures. I want an all-ages coif mesh so bad.
Viking dresses are simple and charming.
Two different resources on Sideless Surcoats with heraldic devices.
An in-depth look at Burgundian costume-- this one, okay, is paintings, and it's the era I don't like, but hey.
Shoes, purses, tools, guns, and knives. Yes, they had guns toward the very end of the middle ages. Cannons, not handguns. Those came later.
Medieval Arts and Crafts-- skimming doesn't show any costumes so far, but a lot of embroidery patterns!
Medieval Design, also available in Italian. Good clear pictures, especially of shoes!
Born in the Wrong Age, a costuming site.
Where Are the Elves? for leatherwork and shoes.
The Viking Answer Lady is exactly what it says on the tin. Answers! About Vikings! From a nice lady!
That's... admittedly all I have to-hand at the moment. I'll post more links as I find them, promise. Although I DO have a link to Go Fug Thyself, dedicated to finding and pointing out the worst in Medieval (and historical, but mostly Medieval) costuming on the intarwebs.
So this post is more of a guide to Medieval fashion than anything else, for my own reference, for anyone else who's interested, and in the hopes that some novice mesh-maker will look at some of the hats and go "I could make that. I could make that and Medieval Simmers would shower me with praise!" Because there aren't enough hats.
Sims and Fantasy
First of all, Sims 2 really does have a very strong fantasy element right from the get-go-- we have aliens, zombies, vampires, werewolves, plant-people, Bigfoot, genies, and witches; satellites fall from space, men get pregnant, the Grim Reaper carries a cellular telephone, and, dude, cowplant. Period games suffer from the fact that you basically need a telephone, and there are certain animation limitations that mean certain styles of clothing are right out. In fact, since Sims use forks, a perfectly Medieval game is impossible (forks didn't come into wide use until the Renaissance... and on their introduction, were considered an exceedingly fussy, off-putting, and more than a little ridiculous affectation of the idle super-rich. That's right: eating with forks was the very-late-Medieval/early Renaissance version of carting a lapdog around in your purse).
So really, there's no absolute need to be as picky as this post suggests I'm being. I'm actually NOT that picky; I have some things in my game I know darn well aren't Medieval (for example, All About Style's Victorian corseted underwear) that I wouldn't give up because I find it too pretty or it adds some variety to a clothing category that would otherwise be pretty monotonous (white or off-white shirts and shifts for all classes).
On the other hand, one way to absolutely guarantee that your game will be historically inaccurate is to avoid any kind of research whatsoever and just download anything Some Random Uploader bills as 'Medieval...' or 'Medieval/Renaissance.' It's far too easy, just cruising MTS's Medieval tag, to end up with a mix of Medieval, Renaissance, Fantasy, Hollywood History, and Halloween Costumes in your game. It ends up looking like the kind of Renaissance Faire where the employees and some of the attendees are dressed in perfect period, some of the attendees are trying hard and falling a little short, some of the attendees are dressed as Disney princesses and Hot Topic fairies, and there are a lot of people wandering around in jeans and T-shirts, plus there's always that one guy who always shows up dressed as Commander Riker, pretending he's on the holodeck.
And, you know what, if that's what you want for a Fantasy or Fairy-Tale theme, that's still awesome (ever seen Into the Woods? It was on PBS's Great Performances, you can find it on DVD at places like Suncoast or Best Buy, if you're in the States. The costuming is inspired, and it borrows from every era from Medieval (the Baker's Wife's hat is a toque) to that odd little period between Empire and Victorian right around 1820. But it all looks like fairy tales and it all works). Even if you're playing a Sims-themed historical game, you're still good, because Sims do not live in this world players are allowed to adjust their world history to suit their own tastes.
But the rule of thumb I personally try to follow is "Look it up, then make it up." The better you understand the look of the era you're collecting for-- or creating for!-- the more you'll know which rules you want to break, and how, when it comes time to break the rules.
Another thing working against historical accuracy is the absolute breadth of the Medieval period. Normally, when we talk about the Middle Ages, we mean throughout the continent of Europe, any time between 400 and 1500. That's a hell of a lot to cover... and while it's fewer changes in fashion than you might think, the regional differences could be pretty significant.
My solution is to not worry about any date before 1400 (simply because I don't like the styles after 1400 quite as well), restrict certain styles to my vacation and Downtown 'hoods, and hope the rest comes out looking like a Society for Creative Anachronism event, where everyone is in the best-researched garb they can afford even if they are all from different periods and places. And then I fudge a lot on underwear, swimwear, and toddlers. If I can ever find meshes for fifteenth century menswear, I'll probably add that, too-- it's the 1400s womenswear I'm not keen on.
Anyway, this isn't about hard and fast rules, but about a more accurate vision of Medieval clothing to use as a foundation before asking questions like "Now, can this work within the limits of the game?"
Medieval Clothing is not...
Printed. There were no prints, no matter how charming they were-- and no matter what you might guess from period paintings. If there appears to be a print in the cloth, it is either woven in (brocade, very expensive) or embroidered. Printed fabrics became feasible during the Empire/Napoleonic era. Something like gingham existed, but I've only seen it used on pillows, not clothing, in period paintings. (EDIT: There were stamped fabrics, I have lately found out, but it was more like being painted with dye than the seamless roller-printing that started in the late 1700s/early 1800s, and that we're used to today.)
Corseted. I haven't found much on in-period bras (EDIT: I now know that in-period bras were basically breast-binding-- strips of linen wound around the body, over the chemise but under the under-dress. The bust was either smushed mostly flat or, in a feat of fashion that the clergy decried, pushed upward to create cleavage-- necessary for the look of those Burgundian gowns), but unlike many other eras, there's not much in the way of underpinnings. No corsets, no stays, no bodices. That's right, no bodices. So many, many Simmers put Ren Faire style bodices on their stuff, and I download it, too, because there's not nearly enough stuff without them. Sometimes you'll see a period reproduction gown with a contrasting thing that looks like a cinch belt, usually with a longer fabric belt wrapped around it. This is a very charming look called a bliaut... but there's some debate over whether it's accurate or a Victorian invention. Which leads me to...
Victorian. Medieval clothing is not Victorian. No hoop skirts, no crinolines, no bustles, no corsets, no bonnets, no high-button boots... and no looking at Victorian paintings as accurate representations of Medieval fashion, because the Victorians were just as bad about faking it and fantasy as we are today-- sometimes worse. (Are the paintings charming? Oh heck yes. Are they accurate? Um, no.)
Trousered, which is a horribly fake word. Pants, trousers, pantaloons, pantalettes, bloomers, all this crap was
Medieval Clothing is...
Layered. There was no central heating, and though straw insulation worked fairly well, there was no weatherstripping, either, and most people couldn't afford glass for their windows. (Or couldn't afford to glaze arrow-slits and have them busted by the archers every time somebody stormed the castle.) Start with a chemise and hose, gartered at the knee, for a woman. Now add an underdress in a pretty color, with long sleeves. Now add a dress over that in another pretty color, with short or long, open, decorative sleeves. It's reasonable to stop there, but if it's cooler and you've only done the short-sleeved dress, add another overdress with the more decorative sleeves in yet another color. There could still be a mantle or shawl involved if it's cold, and a cloak for going outside. Men would have on hose, braises (underwear), a shirt, a tunic, or an undertunic and overtunic... or robe... And when you add armor into it, you're looking at a shirt, wool and leather padding, armor (I am not qualified to guess about armor, but since this is for Sims and there are only so many meshes, I'm not going to be picky, either), and a surcoat with your heraldry or your lord's heraldry displayed.
Colorful! Not neon or bright crayola colors, but good vegetable dyes in colors like the ones in this entry were readily available and much-used. A good bright saffron yellow is possible, too, just not displayed there (and pricey). Purple, however, was a very expensive dye until synthetic dyes were produced, worth its weight and sometimes more in gold. In the middle ages, purple was associated with royalty, but also allowed to the nobility... and to doctors. For everyone else, it was forbidden in most of Europe... which is kind of like saying "Despite the fact that only I and a select few other rich lawmakers can afford diamond-encrusted pony rockets, it is illegal to own one unless you are a rich lawmaker... or a doctor." There was a cheap black dye available, made from walnuts and iron, but I am given to understand it wasn't very popular (in no small part because it weakened the fibers, making a garment that should have lasted ten or twenty years last only five with constant wear and washing).
Very similar in cut, in the early period. For about the first half of the middle ages, everybody, rich and poor, wore clothes of a very similar design. The poor used cheaper fabrics while the rich used more costly stuff, and frequently the rich used more fabric, too-- robes instead of tunics, more fullness or a train to a skirt. (No petticoats-- the skirt didn't stand out, simply hung in more folds.) Then towards the middle of the period (what historians call the High Middle Ages), a funny thing called 'the rise of the middle class' started happening. You didn't have to own land and vassals and collect taxes to have a fortune; instead you could import or practice medicine or generally be a master at something else. There was another point between 'rich' and 'poor' and 'the church,' and it was merchants... and they could afford silk and velvet and brocade and the best linen and wool, too. After all, clothes were clothes, and if you kept a garment in good repair, it wasn't like you had to stop wearing it... And that's when the nobility developed fashion and planned obsolescence, as a way to set themselves apart from the middle class. If a very expensive dress is going to be out of style, only the kind of thing a dowdy would wear, in a handful of years, then only the very rich can afford to wear it. So if you find yourself with only a few meshes in your downloads folder, that's probably why.
Laced and spiral-laced. No, there were no corsets, but yes, things were still laced up-- up the sides, the back, the front. These days, we lace everything in a crossover type pattern, but it used to be all spiral-laced, which does have a certain charm. Why were things laced? Because buttons were expensive (horn or metal) or fiddly (cloth)-- but known!-- and I doubt hooks and eyes, much less zippers or snaps, hadn't been invented yet. Lacing was cheaper, because unlike modern laced garments, there were no grommets (also called eyelets)-- just thread buttonhole-stitched around little holes in the fabric, which were sometimes reinforced with metal rings if the garment was going to be put under a lot of stress. The earliest corsets, called stays and developed in the seventeenth century, were made of quilted linen, buckram, horsehair, and whalebone or wood, and could easily go through a modern metal detector. (Okay, okay, if you had a lot to support in the front, you might go for a steel busk instead of a wooden or whalebone one.) And don't listen to Elizabeth Swann-- corsets and stays were designed to be supportive but still allow a woman to work and move, although there was often difficulty in bending at the waist-- you're supposed to lift with your legs anyway. You couldn't get your stays too tightly laced, because if you put too much strain on those stitched eyelets, they'd tear them out like ripping a piece of paper out of a spiral notebook. Metal grommets, invented in 1828, were much stronger and less likely to tear, and allowed the Victorian tight-lacing trend to happen.
Embroidered! Even the peasants had trim on their necklines, either embroidered directly or tablet-woven. If you were a woman of high enough birth, embroidery was one of the things you did to avoid sitting idle.
Reproductions of Medieval Clothing
Why reproductions? Because, first of all, go and google for Medieval paintings or Medieval portraits. An image search will net you a TON of stuff, and before long you'll be able to spot on sight which paintings are actually Medieval and which are Victorian paintings of people in Medieval-ish costumes. Second, because reproductions usually give more than one view, and are less idealized than portraits somebody paid a great deal of money to have done.
First on the list, because it's my most recent find and makes me the most happy, is Kat's Hats. There are no meshes quite like these in the Sims 2 community, and it makes me sad, and I would do many, many things for some of those pre-1400 styles for my Sim ladies.
Revival Clothing, a marvelous source-- lookit the shoes!
Haandkraft is a source for things other than clothing, really... but the look of everything is just too good not to share.
There's not a whole lot on Matilda La Zouche's Wardrobe, but what is there is very well-photographed.
Medieval Silkwork is a marvelous place for embroidery, trim, and hair covering pictures. I want an all-ages coif mesh so bad.
Viking dresses are simple and charming.
Two different resources on Sideless Surcoats with heraldic devices.
An in-depth look at Burgundian costume-- this one, okay, is paintings, and it's the era I don't like, but hey.
Shoes, purses, tools, guns, and knives. Yes, they had guns toward the very end of the middle ages. Cannons, not handguns. Those came later.
Medieval Arts and Crafts-- skimming doesn't show any costumes so far, but a lot of embroidery patterns!
Medieval Design, also available in Italian. Good clear pictures, especially of shoes!
Born in the Wrong Age, a costuming site.
Where Are the Elves? for leatherwork and shoes.
The Viking Answer Lady is exactly what it says on the tin. Answers! About Vikings! From a nice lady!
That's... admittedly all I have to-hand at the moment. I'll post more links as I find them, promise. Although I DO have a link to Go Fug Thyself, dedicated to finding and pointing out the worst in Medieval (and historical, but mostly Medieval) costuming on the intarwebs.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-09 08:42 pm (UTC)Thanks for this lot of useful information :D
no subject
Date: 2010-04-10 05:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-09 08:51 pm (UTC)Those sorts of inaccuracies are why I play (or have the content to play, I keep forgetting to actually start it lol) a mediæval/viking/anglo-saxon/fantasy hood. Plus it saves me making loads of hoods to cover all my interests lol.
Unfortunately I can't mesh hair nor accessories, I can do clothes though. I'm planning on making some maybe mediæval-ish meshes involving maxis naked body for all ages (with butt cracks and underbust ridges etc removed (I hope)) with the pirate outfit boots stuck on (no idea if pirate boots are particularly accurate lol). They won't involve actual trousers. Also planning on sticking said boots on one of gelydh's alpha dress meshes.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-10 06:27 am (UTC)I mean, I cheat in my game already. My official cut-off date is 1400, but I'm allowed to use anything from before then (and in menswear, I tend to take what I get) to where it stops being Medieval and starts being ancient... and I still use the All About Style corset mesh despite the 'no corsets' thing. Because they add variety, and also because they're pretty. I like pretty things.
Plus my kingdom is a fictional western European composite, my Downtown will be a stereotypical Dark Kingdom (to the point where I really do want to name it Uberwald) full of gypsies, vampires, werewolves, plantsims... maybe a zombie or two, my Far East destination is basically a Chinese/Japanese/Korean custom content smoothie, and Twikkii Island is... West Indies and Hawaiian and African and a little bit South American and basically, if it has bamboo or came out of Castaway Stories, I'm using it. Mountain gets to have something more Nordic, because while the chest pound is stupid, the slap dance actually IS German. At this point I'm considering using my shopping district as a fairy kingdom, but I'm afraid I'll run out of room in the main kingdom and need to expand thataway for farmland.
The nude-clothed mesh with pirate boots sounds fun even if the pirate boots probably aren't period-- doesn't stop me from using them. Mmmm delicious sexy fold-top boots...
no subject
Date: 2010-04-10 01:20 pm (UTC)I've not really set up proper vacation hoods since I got bon voyage, I always seem to be trying to clear out CC to actually be able to run my game well lol.
I figured they probably weren't but I can't mesh from scratch, more mosh things together and they make me think of robin hood boots lol. Just gotta get round to actually doing them (after I finish my contest entry and the lot I'm currently building)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-10 10:11 pm (UTC)There are some boots on Revival Clothing that are quite nice, but I hear you on meshing limitations-- I can't mesh at ALL. But I do like the pirate boots. I have them on clothes, I have them as clutter... Once, in my tester shop (in my testerhood, no less), Serviette sold Mallebron a pair of pirate boots as clutter... when he was wearing those boots as part of his outfit.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-10 10:16 pm (UTC)The closest I've gotten to meshing from near enough scratch is using warlokk's magnets and playing with them to make my own custom bodyshape (which needs fixing up a bit).
Haha that's funny XD
no subject
Date: 2010-04-10 03:41 pm (UTC)But German isn't Nordic, it's Alpine! :D *runs awaaaaay*
no subject
Date: 2010-04-10 10:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 12:07 am (UTC)I do know that that's how the physical genotypes are classified (although Finland, as always, is a bit weird and has Saami and Baltic genotypes as well...) Of course there is overlap there, but those're the predominate types in those areas.
If you find out I'm totally off the mark, please tell me. X)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-11 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 01:43 pm (UTC)Pretty dresses!
Date: 2010-04-09 09:57 pm (UTC)Not to say that they're overpriced for the amount of work/time that goes into them -- just overpriced for my budget.
I hear you on wishing for more medieval-style headwear, I know most of the ladies of Albion are wearing something woefully inaccurate upon their heads. (Or, like oph3lia said, I can just claim my 'hood is a mix of different styles, so I don't have to worry about keeping my interests separate!) Makes me wish I knew how to mesh.
Though, I wonder -- I know there's a "Leia Buns" mesh knocking around out there somewhere. I wonder if the original creator would mind people modifying it to make medieval headwear?
Re: Pretty dresses!
Date: 2010-04-10 06:38 am (UTC)I have no idea what Kavar would think of his Leia mesh being used for that, actually. I have that mesh, and it makes me wish I could retexture worth a damn, because it would look AWESOME Pooklet'd. Anyway, there's that mesh, a Cottonhouse mesh with braided buns (high poly, though), and a cute little style from... Cakesims? MT something? Lovely Asian site, anyway, that
I have no idea what Kavar would think of his Leia mesh being used for that, actually. I have that mesh, and it makes me wish I could retexture worth a damn, because it would look AWESOME Pooklet'd. Anyway, there's that mesh, a Cottonhouse mesh with braided buns (high poly, though), and a cute little style from... Cakesims? MT something? Lovely Asian site, anyway, that <user="kunoichikatie"> Pooklet'd not too long ago, and they'd all be good starting points for crispinettes or templars.
The one I'd love to have-- and to me it looks like it'd be an easy mesh, at least if you could give proper bone assignments and animation to the veil to keep it from cutting into neck, shoulders, and back-- is the Toque. That one is SO incredibly versatile and suitable for every class from rag collector to queen... Even if the crispinette tressor is my favorite look out of the bunch, the toque is the most practical to go begging for.
Re: Pretty dresses!
Date: 2010-04-10 02:14 pm (UTC)Also, go fug thyself is hilarious! Thanks for the links.
Re: Pretty dresses!
Date: 2010-04-10 10:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-13 02:01 pm (UTC)I'm going to quote you now: "I've always been a big believer in knowing the rules before you break 'em." I quite agree, and it's what all the great, innovative and ground-breaking artists did - they first had to learn the rules, so that they knew how to break them to the best effect - and it's the same in your game, I guess. ;)
Oh, and I believe during the middle ages there was already a fair bit of overlap between what would be considered Nordic, Germanic and Slavic peoples, in terms of migration, distribution and ethnicity (all those invasions - think of Britain, for example!). But, geographically, Nordic tends to refer to Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and Iceland), while Germanic doesn't really refer to any specific area, more to a particular Northern European ethnic group and family of languages, which contributed to the Nordic heritage. Eh, did that make any sense?! But, I guess what I'm saying is that a mixture of cultural elements from each wouldn't be unreasonable. :D
Anyway, good luck in making your game ever closer to authentic. I must ask though, I am curious as to why you chose medieval in particular, out of all the possible historical 'periods'?
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Date: 2010-04-13 03:05 pm (UTC)And that's a mighty relief to know about the whole Norse/Nordic/Germanic... thing. I was mostly happy to have hit on ANYTHING that looked okay with that slap dance.
Well. The Medieval thing started when I found Enblith the Fair's challenge (which I found because I was searching for 'Sims 2 Labyrinth' and she has Sarah's blouse on her page). I gave it a whirl, discovered CC, discovered deleting Sims from the Sim Bin is a bad bad thing for your neighborhood, got a new computer for my birthday, started over, discovered clean templates, started over again, and... well, I'm still in the testerhood phase. Aside from already being committed to it, and having six gigs of custom content that is primarily Medieval or Medieval-ish, I've stuck with it because I'm WAY too picky about the Victorian era to deal with CC clothes and hair. I'll stick with dollhouse dolls for that one. Ancient Greece and Egypt got ruled out because a) I'd screw up somehow and b) there's nowhere NEAR enough CC for worship on that kind of scale.
Medieval works well for a historical theme stylistically, too. True, there are hardly any decent hat meshes, but if you hate the look of hands disappearing into skirts with farthingales (Renaissance), panniers (18th century), or crinolines (mid-Victorian), there aren't a lot of periods left... and 'Medieval' gives a lot of scope for the imagination.
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Date: 2010-04-15 08:31 am (UTC)(I also don't care much for who was on the throne, or what treaties were signed when, and I'm far more interested in historical undies or recipes or medicine, for example, and I actually gobble up a fair few historical novels on that basis alone!)
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Date: 2010-04-15 09:36 am (UTC)Regency would be hard-- sometimes Medieval-styled furniture is hard and I just end up going "It's wood! It's good enough!" on things like chairs and counters and stairs. Because it's Sims 2, you have to have counters whether you want them or not. But with Regency, there's such a specific look to everything... The clothes would be the easiest part, I think, until you hit bathing costumes (which, again, didn't exist). There are a few good meshes out there, and with such distinctive silhouettes, you only really need a few good meshes-- the trouble is when you don't have enough for all ages. Furniture... could be tricky, I know I fudge quite a bit in my decorating because eventually I just go "It's a goddamn wooden chair! It's fine!" or stick to recolors of Maxis beds for the sake of InTeen. And for some reason, meshes never seem to make classical furniture-- most of the new stuff is either VERY period or contemporary, not Antiques Roadshow worthy.
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Date: 2010-07-25 08:26 pm (UTC)Word, so very, very much. Dear goodness. Incidentally, I once was on a reenactment meeting (similar to renaissance fair, but medieval and highly anal about weeding out anachronisms) where someone turned up in a Confederate uniform. He got three seconds of bewildered silence and then a "Sir, you are on the wrong holodeck".
My first thought on seeing this entry was "Oh, I wanna help!" but there's probably not much I can do. I've been collecting as many medieval images as I could, mostly religious motives and of course the Manesse Codex plus some images of finds. But I strongly suspect you have all that already.
So I'll just be very, very happy to see that there's someone who shares my exasperation at corsetted, two-piece (blouse and skirt) "medieval" dresses. This entry was such fun to read!
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Date: 2010-07-26 12:13 pm (UTC)Portraits are very good sources, too, and surprisingly there are a lot of pretty good woodcuts featuring underwear. And it's actually really hard to go wrong with a good devoted SCA site, because... well, they've already done the research...
What I really need to do is finish re-Pookletting my hairs (because that's an easy task. *facepalm* It seems like I just can't function without two gigs of hair) and start making clothes inbetween default replacement sets.
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Date: 2010-07-30 01:24 pm (UTC)"Pookletting turns up a lot. Is that a program? Some thing to do with sorting CC?
SCA is so glorious. I take it you know the filk song which explains to distrustful men in black that no, it's not "Anarchism", it's "Anachronism", maybe you'd like to look it up in Sir Meriam Websters reliable book?
no subject
Date: 2010-07-30 01:59 pm (UTC)To Pooklet (it amuses her that her name is a verb now, although the proper past tense is Pooklet'd) is to use Pooklet's Photoshop actions to quickly, easily, and consistently recolor... well, anything, but hair and wood are most popular for the natural tones, and eventually EVERYTHING gets a shot of the neons.
I haven't, but it sounds like the sort of thing I'd get a kick out of. I'm not a member of the SCA or anything (I do know someone who is), but dang I appreciate their work. Half the time, reading their sites makes me want to try and cook things. The rest of the time, I want to try to Sim things.
Enjoyed this....
Date: 2010-09-07 02:55 pm (UTC)Dropped by to say that, while you don't know me, once I've finished my thesis for this semester I was, as a thankyou to the denizens of GoS for the year of anonymous d/ling I've been doing, planning to do some of the pregmorphs on your wishlist if no one else is (but ONLY if no one else is, cos I really should be attending to other work... but my priorities, they are skewiff), then stumbled onto this. I like this, yes I do... Victorian era clothing dressed as "medieval" is a wee annoyance of mine, even though I tend to dress my sims as, um, Medieval Steampunk (yay for mixed-genre anachronism), simply because I love both and can't decide between them. So I'm not picky about medieval accuracy for sims (Don't get me started on Braveheart though. Or that stupid Medieval S3 game. Just.... /headdesk). But I do avoid the Ren Fayres, just for my blood pressure.
There is one thing that is a wee bit inaccurate, however, on this post: trousers. They were introduced into Western Europe by the Visigoths in the 600-odds, so by the High Middle Ages they were certainly known and used. This is one factoid that has stuck in my head from my Early Middle Era studies because I was always tickled with something my prof said at the time... "trousers were a Gothic Legacy". See... LEG-acy. Ba-doom *crash.* (No, he missed it. Sigh. The prof, he had no humour). Anyhoo, archaeological evidence certainly shows extant pants on the "Barbarian Hordes" (terrible term) in areas from around Aquitaine and North of the Italian alps upwards from the early sixth century, even if the Goths in Spain tended to be the only ones who wore them in that area until their minority rule ended with the takeover from the South. Yus--Charlemagne, pants he wore. :D They did go in and out of fashion in the Southern areas of France and Italy, and South-Eastern England, but in Anglo-Saxon England, certainly the population in the Danelaw wore trousers. So, they're not completely anachronistic for our period, at least. :)
Anyhooo, let me know if someone else is making those meshes if you know about it... then I can do something else.
Love your work, btw.
Bethgael
Re: Enjoyed this....
Date: 2010-09-08 03:20 am (UTC)Now, see, I know that the Vikings wore trousers, but I've never seen them in artwork on anybody-- just hose, either joined or tied to braises or hidden up under a tunic or robe, from peasant to king. It does make sense that they'd spread a bit from various hordes ('barbarian' I don't like so much, but 'horde' is a fun word), and certainly trousers are easier to make and thus easier to make at home than good proper wool hose-- so they'd make good peasant wear-- but I think a big part of why I focused so hard on hose up in the essay is that there are quite a few be-trousered meshes out there billed as Medieval (one of the oldest and most popular ones seems to have been imported whole-cloth into TS3 'Medieval') and comparatively few tunic-and-hose outfits, especially with both the normal legs (not the skinny legs shown with the kilt outfit) and with shoes instead of boots.
Were the trousers bound around the legs in Viking fashion? I think I've heard of that being done among peasants, even if I can't recall seeing any artwork.
As far as I know, nobody's laid claim to any pregmorphs that haven't been finished-- if there's one you want to go for (especially if it's one of Aligeth's nightgowns, she's even got a couple nice female ones that would make great maternity wear that don't have pregmorphs), go for it! All the world loves a pregmorph. Grades are more important, though, so only go for it when your brain needs a break.
Thank you so much for the compliments!
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Date: 2011-01-03 11:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-01 10:14 am (UTC)