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Everybody and their uncle knows I play a Medieval game, and anybody who knows anything about the Middle Ages in Europe knows that religion was a HUGE part of life. Chris Hatch added religion for Sims to his Angels & Nurses fan-expansion, and graciously extracted Lite and Middle versions for people who want religion, but don't want to install a fan-made expansion pack that would probably break their personal mod suite.

Unfortunately, the Lite version of the mod (which is compatible with most other mods) is just cosmetic; you get the fun of making up deities and setting up tenets, but it has no actual effect on your game. Because three of the five tenets of each faith were romantic and sexual in nature, the Middle version conflicts with InTeen, among other things.

I can't do without InTeen until I find a mod or mod suite that fully replaces the features I want (in order, Young Adult marriage and pregnancy, non-student or mixed student/non-student families in a Uni subhood, miscarriage, alien pregnancy for teens, young adults, and adults of all genders (not part of InTeen but I do want it), and Teen pregnancy and marriage), and of course my love for feature-adding mods stems from adding features, not just adding flavor text. Neither strength of Chris Hatch's extracted religion really worked for me.

And then in came Larky, who I no longer know where to find, and who, in a thread lost to one of the many attacks on Garden of Shadows over the years, took my ideas for a religion mod that banned only non-romantic interactions and made it a reality.

This is that mod.


"He says gods like to see an atheist around. Gives them something to aim at." Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

This is not a small mod, I give you fair warning. This mod can change how your Sims behave and may change how you play your game. I'm going to try to use a couple of terms consistently, and Capitalize Them so they stand out. So before we get really started, a quick glossary:

Deity: The Sim that holds a Religion together, metaphorically, practically, and grammatically.
Religion: The collected Tenets under one Deity.
Tenet: Any one of the five rules of a Religion banning or allowing certain activities.
Faith: Measure of a Sim's belief in their Religion.
Zeal: Measure of a Sim's affection for their Religion.
Place of Worship: A lot dedicated to a specific Religion.

Also, Religion (indeed most Chris Hatch mods) requires Apartment Life or Mansion & Garden. I do not know if other game configurations running on the AL game engine (bundle packs, Store Edition, Ultimate Collection) will run Religion properly or safely. If you decide to test that, you test it at your own risk. ... But also if you decide to test it? Please let me know what happens.

On we go.

The Deity

Each Religion has to have a Deity, for coding purposes. Believe me, I don't want to lock anyone's Sims into worshiping gods or goddesses; the grammar of the mod is meticulously structured to let you name your Deities damn near anything. More on names later.

You can choose the Deity's gender, but they start off as randomly-generated NPC toddlers, so they don't roam the neighborhood and flirt with your mortal Sims. Once your Deity or Deities exist, you can use a teleporter to move them onto a lot, add them to a family, age them up, make them over, use SimSurgery, whatever you want. It will not hurt your game or your Religion or the mod in general to let Deities roam the 'hood, testing the piety of or just sleeping with the locals, depending on your taste in pantheons. If you want cosmetically adult Deities but don't want free-range Deities, pick up Inge Jones's Prison System and slip an Electronic Prisoner Tag into each Deity's inventory. TwoJeffs' Visitor Controller scans for that and doesn't let tagged prisoners roam community lots.

It's probably a good idea not to let a Deity die, just in case.

Tenets

The real reason to install G-Rated Religion is the ability to change your Sims' behavior based on their belief system-- their Religion. For each Religion, you can choose to ban or allow Wrath, Theft, Violence, Indiscretion, and Disrespect. Allow all of them and you won't see any changes (you could probably make an atheist religion this way, if you're careful about your naming). It's more fun, however, to ban stuff, and to ban different stuff for each faith:

Ban Wrath and Sims won't stomp and grumble if they have a pathfinding failure. Instead, you'll see a popup with flavor text alerting you that someone is stuck, no matter a Sim's Faith level (though lower faith-levels may just get a shrug) or age (toddlers try to follow adults a lot, and can't climb stairs).

Ban Theft, and Sims of high Faith won't steal their neighbors' gnomes or newspapers if they'd be otherwise inclined to.

Ban Violence, and your Sims won't start anything under the Fight interaction (Slap, Shove, Poke, Attack) or the Play interactions Red Hands, Punch U Punch Me, and Cops and Robbers, provided their Faith is high.

Ban Indiscretion, and Faithful Sims won't Tell Secret, Gross Out, Belch At anyone, Gossip, or Brag.

Ban Disrespect, and Sims of high Faith won't Nag, Insult, or Annoy.

All of these are autonomous behaviors and a few aren't user-directable at all, so you should see some real differences in Sim behavior-- so long as Faith is high.

While the Tenets were originally chosen so I could have InTeen compatibility, they fall out in such a way that every ban makes your Sims better behaved-- more patient, more polite, more thoughtful, and kinder. While some of the Tenets seem a little redundant, basically Wrath bans or allows angry outbursts, Theft bans or allows taking anything that doesn't actually belong to your Sim, Violence bans or allows aggressively touching another Sim, even if it's all in fun, Indiscretion bans or allows breaches in good manners-- basically, rudeness-- and Disrespect bans more intentional mean behavior.

True, the interactions banned in the basic mod only start to reflect that, but there are expansions available after you download Religion, too.

Faith and Zeal

Faith and Zeal are, according to Chris Hatch, two new types of variable data. I'm actually not 100% sure if Zeal affects this mod (in the original PG-13 Religion, Sims with high Zeal but low Faith could become hypocritical, smacking cheating Sims with a Crumplebottom bag despite being able to cheat, themselves), but if a Sim's Faith is low (testing shows somewhere around 30 points out of 100), they can begin to disobey the Tenets of their Religion, with the exception of the permanent ban on pathfinding tantrums.

Faith and Zeal start out high when Sims are babies, and steadily decrease over time-- faster with misfortune. You can keep Faith and Zeal high one of two ways. Use the new interaction Ask.../About Religion as well as Talk.../Chat, Talk.../Hang Out, autonomous 'seated' conversations (such as when sharing a couch or over a shared meal), and chatting over the phone with a Sim of the same Religion to raise the Faith and the Zeal of both Sims. Spending time at a Place of Worship also boosts Faith and Zeal levels for every hour a Sim is on the lot. Faith-raising stacks if the Sims are Chatting while on a Place of Worship lot.

However, sharing those interactions with a Sim of a different Religion lowers Faith and Zeal for both Sims, as does spending time at a Place of Worship dedicated to a different religion. If two Sims of different Religions are chatting away, and one has very high Faith and the other very low, the Sim with low Faith may end up converted. Sims who haven't been assigned a Religion yet may end up converted, too.

If you want your Sims to socialize but don't want their Faith levels affected, you're going to have to direct the conversation to things like Entertain or Talk.../About Hobby (depending on your expansion spread).

Sims whose households are all of one Religion and who have plenty of time to Chat or Hang Out may never have to go to their Place of Worship. Single Sims, Sims with lots of friends of other Religions, and very busy single-Religion households will probably need to visit their Place of Worship at least once a week-- maybe more often. Mixed-Religion dorms may be the most challenging.

And no, using objects with custom prayer interactions won't boost a Sim's Faith levels. That'd take a BHAViorist, and I'm not one. (However, if any brave BHAViorist out there wants to take a whack at making prayable objects boost faith, for hermits or whoever, let me know and I'll link you to my favorites.) Unfortunately that means you can't have religious hermits, as there's no way to keep them holy.


Places of Worship

When you designate a lot as a Place of Worship (in testing, community and hotel lots worked, while residential, dorm, and apartment lots didn't), Sims will have their Faith and Zeal boosted every hour they're there if they're at at Place of Worship dedicated to their Religion; otherwise, their Faith and Zeal takes a hit every hour. Probably any community lot or specialty lot that starts as or includes being a community lot on its way to specialty can become a Place of Worship. Places of Worship can be owned community lots, as well.

You do not have to make a Place of Worship resemble a church. A park, a shopping mall, a bordello, anything will work-- but it'll work best if your Sims enjoy spending time there.

When a lot is designated as a Place of Worship, the community lot populator makes sure to only summon Sims of the appropriate Religion to come hang out, although you can send your current playable Sims anywhere you please. Non-playable Sims on the Place of Worship lot get their Faith levels boosted, too.

Sims who have plenty of time to talk with Sims of their own Religion hardly ever need to visit a Place of Worship lot, while Sims who lack that kind of time (because they're busy, live on their own, or live in a mixed-Religion household) will need to visit more often to keep their Faith high enough to affect their behavior. Once a week seems to work well for most Sims, but holding a mid-week Myshuno game couldn't hurt, either.


The Sister

The original A&N/T&A religion feature came with a Guardian Angel to help designate Places of Worship, and an optional sexy nun named Sister Cheeky. The medium-strength separated version just came with Sister Cheeky, as the angel was connected to some deeper afterlife-based modding that Chris Hatch didn't want to separate. Sister Cheeky, in the original mod, is a Romance Sim in a Sexy Nun costume, because that's what Chris Hatch wanted in his game. Larky remodeled her into a Knowledge Sim and renamed her The Sister, and I stripped her makeup, changed her face structure, and put her in a traditional white nun's habit. (Same as the Mrs. Crumplebottom white default replacement Classic Habit, in fact, so she and The Sister can be from the same order.) Her skintone is S2, and she will of course pick up your default replacements. She has black hair, genetically.

The Sister will turn up at every Place of Worship; talking with her boosts a Sim's Fatih and Zeal no matter what Religion they belong to.

Since she's a custom NPC, you may want to install a copy of NPC_Unique_TheSister_G-RatedReligion.package into each Neighborhoods/N###/Characters folder for every 'hood where you've played with Religion. Otherwise, even if you decide to uninstall the G-Rated Religion Mod, you will have to leave NPC_Unique_TheSister_G-RatedReligion.package in your Downloads folder. Uninstalling custom NPCs will corrupt any neighborhood that ever used them.

You can make over The Sister! I've only used Pescado's Clothing Tool and the Plastic Surgery station to do it, but Sim Surgery should work, too. I'm less sure about renaming her, but I suspect if you copy her made-over .package file to the appropriate Characters folder, you could give The Sister a fresh makeover for each neighborhood. I won't swear to that, but I suspect it. (If you test it, tell me your results?)


Getting Started

After you install the mod, enter any residential lot. After ten in-game minutes (to let the lot fully load and allow for any other load-on-lot-load mods to run), you'll be prompted to set up religion.

The first question you'll be asked is about how many Religions you want in this neighborhood. You can choose anywhere from one (which will then be given to all families in the 'hood) to five (the maximum number of townie-enabled Religions). While you can create as many Religions as you want (and there is a way to create them later, more on that in a bit), only the first five will be townie-friendly.

After that, you'll be asked to start setting up your Religions, beginning with a gender and name for the Deity of Religion #1.

And here's the thing; basically all I could contribute to this mod myself were ideas and writing. Ideas are easy, they never stop (for all they don't always fit together cleanly), but I worked very hard on the writing for this mod. While you certainly can have a god or goddess as the Deity of a Religion, you are absolutely not locked into that-- especially since, after setup, you never see a Deity's picture again. The language is gender-neutral and only minimally anthropomorphic. I even did my best to avoid using apostrophe-possessives. It might be a little stilted at times, but your Sims can believe in anything.

Here are some sample phrases from the mod itself:

According to [DEITY]...
Followers of [DEITY]...
To devotees of [DEITY]...
By decree of [DEITY]...
I'm extremely devoted to [DEITY].
I believe in [DEITY], at least on a good day.
Can [DEITY] show me the way?
What would [DEITY] advise?
It's frustrating that [DEITY] won't allow...
I'm angrier at [DEITY] than...

As long as you can swap out [DEITY] with your potential name and have the grammar for those phrases flow reasonably well, then you have a name that will work for your in-game toddler-god. Any proper name will work, as will a lot of titles, most concepts, the occasional plural, and damn near anything starting with 'the.' The only caveat I can think of is that I did use commas in the text occasionally, so a name-comma-title Deity name like "Thor, God of Thunder" limits you to either awkward comma splices as-is, or occasional double commas if you try "Thor, God of Thunder," instead. "Thor (God of Thunder)" might work, but it does look a little silly.

Need some examples as to workable Deity names? Good, because I really wanted to make a long list showing off everything from the classical to the thematic to the ridiculous:

PROPER NAMES...
Yeshua
Odin
Hera
Coyote
Mother Nature
Eris, Goddess of Discord
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Robert Downey, Jr.
Captain America
Bilious, The Oh God of Hangovers
Sir Terry Pratchett
Anne Hathaway
Alistair Crowley
Optimus Prime
Indiana Jones
Albus Dumbledore

STARTS WITH "THE"...
The Oracle at Delphi
The Mother Goddess
The Flying Spaghetti Monster
The Grim Reaper
The Lord Wright
The Watcher
The Peteran Church
The Jacoban Church
The US Constitution
The Law of the Jungle
The Great God Om
The Muppets
The Rules of Acquisition
The Seventy Maxims of Highly Effective Mercenaries (that might be a bit long)
The Ninth Doctor
The Covenant of Primus
The Art of War by Sun Tzu
The Code of Chivalry
The Social Contract
The Witch from next door

GROUPS (SOMETIMES STARTING WITH "THE")...
Lady Sif and the Warriors Three
Rogers and Hammerstein
The Stars
The Upstairs Neighbors
My Proud Ancestors
Eight Sentient Spiders
Tiffany Zarubin and the Gardening Club

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WORKS...
My Own Moral Code
You Know Who
She Who Must Be Obeyed
Every Webisode of Monster High
Polite Society
My Fear of Clowns
A Love of Grilled Cheese
Capitalism
My Local Homeowner's Association
Gyromancy

Now that you've assigned your Deity a name and a gender, the setup will ask you about the five potential Tenets, and whether you want to allow or forbid them. Once again, those Tenets are:

Wrath
Theft
Violence
Indiscretion
and
Disrespect

Allow all of them and your Sims behave as normal, no change beyond Zeal and Faith going up and down (with attendant text changes). Forbid everything and watch your Sims appear calmer, kinder, and more patient, even if they're actually seething bundles of Furious rage.

I heartily recommend writing down the details of each Religion you want before setup. Scribble it into a Notepad file or onto a Post-It or something. If you're making more than one Religion, it's easy to blank out as you go along.

If you selected one Religion during setup, it will be distributed to all Sims in the neighborhood. If you selected more than one, you'll be asked to choose a Religion for each household as you first enter it until every household has a Religion.

AND! If you add a new Sim to the household straight from the Sim Bin, when you enter that household you'll be prompted to choose a Religion for the household again. If you have a new baby, save, and exit the household, the next time you enter, you'll be prompted to choose a Religion for the household again. If everybody in the house is already the same Religion, this is no big (I don't know if it resets Faith levels, though). If you want to keep a mixed-Religion household, or just don't want to have to bother clicking the thing every time, you have a couple of options.

One, I did enable the Heaven and Hell fairy for use by all ages, including boolprop-selected babies. You can use that to 'baptize' your babies, or if you don't want to bother with boolprop, don't exit the household until your babies are toddlers, and then use the H&H Fairy to give them the Religion you want. For CAS-made Sims, before moving them to an existing household, move them onto an empty lot and use the H&H Fairy to give them the desired Religion. (If you like to use mods like the Sim Blender or Batbox to do things like randomize skills for new adult Sims, it's a good opportunity to do that, too.)


The Heaven and Hell Fairy

The Heaven and Hell Fairy (which I did not name) is effectively the mod controller. Available in the General/Misc section of the Buy catalog for $0, the fairy is needed to turn a lot into a Place of Worship, create a new Religion, remind you of a Religion's Tenets, display information about the selected Sim's Faith and Zeal levels, edit a Religion's Tenets, take a census, and with testingcheats enabled, remove all Religions and Faith data (in case you want to uninstall, or in case you want a clean slate) or randomly assign townie-enabled Religions to all Sims in the neighborhood (because presumably, you'll only need to do that once). It might also be able to ban or allow The Sister from turning up on community Places of Worship, but I'm not sure that option carried over from A&N/T&A to the Medium strength version.

If you so much as click on the Heaven and Hell Fairy while building a community lot or uninhabited residential lot, the Live Mode button will suddenly un-gray-out, and you'll be given a thousand-simoleon budget. Why? Because if you click through to Live Mode, The Sister will turn up, summoned by the clicking, ready to be the controllable Sim you need to turn a community lot into a Place of Worship. If you save and exit the lot, then re-enter, everything will be back to normal again. (That's why I re-priced the Fairy and moved her from her original spot in Deco/Sculpture, right next to the garden fairy she's cloned from. In General/Misc, she's harder to click by accident when you're looking for a cute fairy statue and can't remember which one's which.)

Although she's cuter than the Batbox, the Heaven and Hell fairy is easily hidden with other mod controllers, in attics, under foundations, inside one-tile "pillars," or in tall landscaping.

Compatibility

Naturally, this mod does NOT play will with Chris Hatch's original Religion Mods, whether Lite (basically just the text and Sister Cheeky) or Middle (which affects romantic interactions). You'll have to choose G-Rated or the original PG-13 versions, and if you've got Angels & Nurses or Tits & Arse installed I don't know how you could manage to use this version instead.

Also, because of how banning and allowing Tenets are set up, when you run the HCDU, you'll notice the mod conflicts with itself. That's totally normal and nothing to worry about.

Otherwise?

This mod was designed for maximum cross-compatibility with other mods, but it's still possible to find a conflict. The only ones that came up during initial testing were for Squinge's Single Slap, Pescado's Fight Club, and Syberspunk's Harder Grades. Single Slap and Fight Club have Religion-Friendly versions coming; I'd do the same for Harder Grades, but it's fancy so I can't. The only BHAV in Harder Grades that conflicts is Grade - Update, so load Harder Grades after Religion and accept that good grades won't boost your students' Faith levels (but bad grades won't lower them, either).

EDIT: Jadesim found a conflict similar to Harder Grades in TwoJeffs' Triplets and Quads hack. Sims' Faith levels are affected by giving birth, so once again, you'll have to choose between giving birth affecting your Sims' Faith levels or having multiple births.

ANOTHER EDIT: Veetie found out the hard way that BoilingOil's Phone Makeover conflicts kind of a lot-- you won't be able to set up Religions or Tenets and constant resets on any lot with a Fairy-- I'm not sure what the conflict is or if there's a fix for it. You'll have to choose between a tidied-up phone system or religion.

I'm going to keep using this space to list mod conflicts that I can't either update or share instructions on how to update, and since this soup already has three cooks I invite anyone who wants to pull apart BHAVs to try their luck at making things play nice. But now back to conflicts.

TwoJeffs' Visitor Controller also fights with Religion a little bit... but only as pertaining to Hobby Leaders. The current quick-and-dirty solution for that issue is to use Pescado's No Hobby Spam alongside the Visitor Controller to only see the Hobby Leaders when you visit a Hobby Lot, rather than having them barging into your house every time you cook a food or play a video game.

However, if you have a mod that changes the pathfinding tantrums, newspaper or gnome theft, the slap, shove, poke, attack, Punch U Punch Me, Red Hands, Cops and Robbers, Tell Secret, Gross Out, Belch At, Gossip, Brag, Nag, Insult, or Annoy interactions, this mod might conflict with it. Mods removing the autonomy of any of those interactions can be replaced by this mod, which effectively lets you kill their autonomy on a Religion-by-Religion basis (but could be loaded last if you just never want to see that behavior again, no matter the Sim's Faith level). No Fight Dust mods and pathfinding improvement hacks like Paladin's Get The Closest Plate, Stupid are compatible with G-Rated Religion.

Because I don't know enough about modding to know if it's a problem, I feel it's only fair to warn you there are some regular in-game dialogue strings included in Religion. I don't think they should cause a problem, not if things were done right, but it's possible they could conflict with text default replacements. If a text default you want to use affects...

Sims complaining that they're in a bad mood
New household members moving in (and any failure notice about moving out, IE, only adults and elders can move out, the only adult or elder in a lot full of kids and teens can't move out on their own)
Notices that the Uni Class Performance meter is full so stop studying
Pay for your danged meal and other NL dining-out notices
"You stood me up!" and "don't stand up your date/group!" notices
End Date/Stay Here dialogue strings
Business lot and Deed purchase dialogues
Business rank notices
"You're buying more food than you have fridge" notices
Employees complaining they're too tired
Vacation home purchase dialogues
Hotel check-in and check-out dialogues

... Please let me know so I can change this text to let everyone know about the conflict. The general solution, if there is a conflict, is to copy those text changes to the religion mod's appropriate Dialog Prim String Set in SimPE, and chuck your default replacement.

On the other hand... that's honestly probably it as far as conflicting mods go. It won't conflict with any romance or teen-pregnancy based mods, and is in fact fully compatible with InTeen. Although I will say, using this mod, Inge's Annoying Games Suite, and ACR all together means you may need to make sure your Sims have ways to entertain themselves besides woohoo.

I've included Larky's instructions on adding a custom interaction to the ban/allow list-- not for adding new Tenets, but for adding other interactions under the existing five Tenets. For instance, if you want to file the Deadly Neck Bite mod for vampires under 'violence,' you can manage that in SimPE in a couple of minutes. (I've also included my streamlined version of Larky's instructions. Hers are well worth a read, but sometimes it's easier to have a numbered list instead of paragraphs of "Okay, do this, because that," especially when you've done it before and just need a refresher.)


Pros and Cons

Still on the fence?

PROS:

Hey, a great big set-it-and-forget-it feature adding mod that affects what your Sims can and cannot do autonomously!
Make your self-Sim a Deity and finally get the worshipful respect you deserve!
Cut down on newspaper thefts and gnome drama!
Never watch a grown Sim stamp their foot and grumble and wave because they can't walk over a stuck ghost tip jar ever again.
If you don't like my super-neutral flavor text, all the entries have handy dandy descriptions to help you re-write it!

CONS:

Yet another thing you have to manage.
There's a danger you'll uninstall the mod and forget to leave The Sister where she is, starting the process of 'hood corruption which will, as we all know, eventually end in a Big Fiery Ball Visible From Space.
Instead of the stamp-and-grouse you've learned to ignore, now you get an annoying pop-up when certain religious Sims can't step over the ankle-high obstacle-- or when toddlers want to follow adults and realize they can't climb stairs.

YMMV:

Households where everyone in the family shares a Religion and have plenty of time to Chat and Hang Out may not often need to visit their Place of Worship. Single Sims with plenty of friends of different Religions may need to visit more often. Due to a lack of faith-boosting prayable objects and the fact that residential lots can't be Places of Worship, there is no way to keep a hermit holy.
Infants have the highest possible Faith and Zeal levels. Implications may be weird.

Thanks and Credits

First big thank-you to Chris Hatch, for first extracting religion from T&A/A&N in answer to a request I made, and then for giving permission to lower the rating and increase compatibility. Next, of course, I have to thank Larky, wherever they may now be, for their invaluable coding skills and willingness to turn the ideas I couldn't juggle into something that functioned. Without Quaxi there would be no SimPE and without SimPE there would be no mods, and I definitely have to thank Gayars and Veetie for testing this bad boy while I was in reduced computing circumstances, and Tienelle and Lauratje86, who also volunteered to help me test things.

Download

Quick reminders:

Requires the Apartment Life Expansion and/or Mansion & Garden Stuff
Do not remove The Sister's NPC package if you uninstall
Five Tenets per Religion
Sims start to break their Tenets at a Faith level around 30 (out of 100)
Places of Worship on Community lots (and BV hotels) only
Only Basegame interactions are banned under vanilla-Religion Tenets

Okay, sounds good.

DOWNLOAD HAT & LARKY'S G-RATED CHRIS HATCH RELIGION

Date: 2016-04-29 04:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"Well, I think we've all arrived at a very special place. Spiritually, ecumenically, grammatically." - Capt. Jack Sparrow

This is awesome for more reasons than I can list. Can't wait to start redesigning my religions! And I may have to add that mid-week Myshuno fundraiser, lol.

rugs

Date: 2016-04-30 04:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morgaine2005.wordpress.com
*weeps with joy*

I have been waiting for this for so long. So very long. And now it's here. And it. is. BEAUTIFUL.

And you even uploaded it on a Friday morning, so I can play with it THIS WEEKEND.

I think I might have to set up an in-game religion in your honor!!! Thank you!!

(Also, question, which might have been answered before, but if so I missed it: Can you only set up religions once per hood? Or can you add more later as you go along?)

Date: 2016-04-30 04:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morgaine2005.wordpress.com
So this mod is designed for people who don't have their act together and tend to make things up as they go along? EXCELLENT.

As it happens I only have 3 ideas for religions for my new BACC medieval hood, so, it's good to know that those other 2 options won't go away if I come up with more ideas later.

Next stupid question! If I were to make my own townies/downtownies/tourist families/vacation locals and assign them a religion while they're still playable, will that religion stick after they get townified? Or would tat be randomized and I'd have to change it later?

(I apologize in advance for all of the stupid, hyper-specific questions.)

(And thank you again!!)

Date: 2016-04-30 05:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morgaine2005.wordpress.com
Good, I like getting answers to questions, so we are in agreement.

My ideas are as following:

The Peteran Faith (loosely based on TSM): Probably banning Wrath, Theft, and Violence (though I'm keeping the mods for Water Balloon Fights & Snowball Fights out of my game - those interactions are just too useful! Also, my main hood is going to be Peteran, so, don't want to ban too many useful interactions here).

The Jacoban Faith (loosely based on TSM): Probably banning Theft, Indiscretion, and Disrespect (because it seems to me, from my reading about Peterans vs. Jacobans, that Jacobans might be moderately in favor of violence provided it's aimed against the right people).

Hippie Plantsim Faith: Still working on that one, most of my ideas for that one revolve around sex/marriage (or rather, lots of sex, lack of marriage), so that will stay in the realm of Player Headcanon.

Possible Atheist/Agnostic: Everything is permitted, nothing is forbidden.

The Demigoddess Morgaine: Admittedly I have no idea what would go into this, but it seems like it's something that should be in there.

So, yeah, 3 just mushroomed into 5 just from thinking about it a little more. I think when I run the setup, I'll start with just the Peterans and the Jacobans, and I'll add others as I get my ideas nailed down.

I will definitely check that out the next time I'm creating townies! :)

And what about your ideas - the Allfather, Sun Goddess, and yes, Cult of the Reaper? I'm always looking for ideas to steal--I mean sources of inspiration. *innocent face*

Date: 2016-04-30 05:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morgaine2005.wordpress.com
And of course I get more ideas not long after I answer the question.

So here are the amended religions:

Peteran Faith: No change

Jacoban Faith: Adding Wrath to the list (Wrath is for the Watcher, not for you)

Hippie Plantsim: Now The Four Ideals (hmm, wonder where I got that from! ;) ), banning Wrath & Violence, keeping my ideas about love/marriage/etc.

Atheist/Agnostic: Now called The Pirate Code (everything is still permitted).

Dunno if that helps/assuages your curiosity, but it's what I'm thinkin'!

And now I really should get to bed, because it is nearly 2 in the morning here on the East Coast.

Thanks again for this mod, Hat, and I can't wait to try it out tomorrow!!

Date: 2016-04-30 07:21 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"They're really more like guidelines than rules..."

I may need a Pirate Code now, Morganna!

rugs

Date: 2016-05-04 02:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morgaine2005.wordpress.com
Oh wow. You have put a LOT more thought into your religions than I did! And I love your ideas about the Allfather, Sun Goddess, and Cult of the Reaper. Especially the Cult of the Reaper, that's deep.

Of course with three-ish days to play around with this thing, I've had a TON of fun and a lot more thoughts - so thank you!! I definitely do need to give a lot more thoughts to the Supernaturals, though. As is usual for me, I play by the seat of my pants and make justifications up later ... probably because if I ever gave a hood a lot of thought, I'd give up the idea before I'd actually play.

But I HAVE had some ideas, which I will share here, because I am assuming you are not averse to hearing them. Sharing ideas is good, right? Leads to more ideas all around, no?

So. Ideas.

Rather like any number of real-world sects that I'm sure we all could name, the Peterans and Jacobans are in agreement on a surprising number of religious issues but tend to fight like hell over the few things they don't agree on, to the point where both sides tend to forget about the things they DO agree on. They both agree there is a Watcher, that the Watcher controls the lives of Sims, etc. They both agree on the purpose of marriage: to safely constrain lust and to provide a stable environment for the raising of children. Both frown on/forbid divorce, but Peterans are a little more open to the idea if there is an abusive situation or rampant infidelity (i.e. if the environment has grown toxic for the children and lust is clearly not being constrained). The Jacobans tend not to grant divorces unless the legitimacy of the children has been called into question or unless one party has fallen into heresy and risks dragging the rest of the family along with him/her. (Separations, however, are another matter and are considered something for secular authorities to work out.)

In terms of interfaith marriage, both Peterans and Jacobans accept & recognize marriages between each other. Peterans will allow Peteran/Jacoban couples to marry in their Place of Worship with their full blessings; Jacobans will only allow it if the couple promises to raise any children in the Jacoban faith.

Peterans and Jacobans have somewhat similar ideas on Supernaturals too. Both are fine with Witches, at least in theory: magic isn't inherently good or bad, it's what you DO with it that counts. (This is because I don't think there's any tension between religion and magic in TSM? And I'm taking a lot of inspiration from TSM.) And I'm keeping my personal headcanon of magic being born, not made, game mechanics be damned.

Plantsims both are leery of, for reasons having to do with the religion of the Four Ideals, but Peterans would be more open to the idea of a Plantsim convert/clergy member than Jacobans.

Servos ... Servos I will have to think about. Or say it's a position of some debate. Because when you come down to it, what makes a Servo go in a universe that doesn't have robots and programing and AI? Is it just magic, not a real soul? Then a Servo isn't a real person. Is there a soul in there? Ok ... then where did it come from? And how did it get there? Either way, I don't think either sect is going to be adding Servos to its monasteries, just because they're (I'm) not sure what they are.

Changelings/fae ... I think, in theory at least, both Peterans and Jacobans would be open to the idea of changeling converts/church members & clergy. Jacobans maybe even more than Peterans, because if a Jacoban can make a changeling a good subject of the Watcher, now THAT is a coup! And of course, a little extra magical power to help bring the Watcher's will into effect is never really a bad thing. Peterans might be a little more cautious, mostly because they're wondering how the changeling got into the mortal parent. Rape? Magical rape? Is it really a good idea to be encouraging this kind of thing? (Although some Peterans will point out that magical rape or not, it isn't the KID'S fault how s/he got made.)

Bigfoot: I can't see Peterans or Jacobans having a problem with Bigfoot. Well, Jacobans might want to dunk Bigfoot into a bath and make sure he dries off well before services. Nobody likes the smell of wet Bigfoot during a long church service.

Vampires: I think the Jacobans would actually have a fairly decent working relationship with vampires, not only because I plan on making my Downtown (once I earn it, I'm playing a BACC so subhoods have to be earned) into Yaconthia, the Jacoban stronghold. But when you think about it - original NL vampires are supposed to be courtly and old-fashioned, so they would probably agree with Jacobans when it comes to things like Indiscretion and Disrespect. And living "forever" = lots of money = plenty of money to throw the Church's way. And vampires aren't really immortal, they just don't age, it's still up to the Watcher whether they die or not. Peterans, however, would be more likely to be like, "I'm sorry, you eat what? You were changed to your current form how? And you can do what to other people?"

Zombies: I think it's going to be the reverse of vampires with zombies. Peterans are more likely to feel pity and offer some measure of acceptance; zombies are changed against their will and their lot in, um, unlife kinda sucks in a lot of ways. Plus, they're not really immortal, just non-aging. Jacobans are more likely to be annoyed by the smell and the tendency for Disrespect and Indiscretion. Plus, if the Watcher allowed your soul to come back like that, S/He can't have liked you much to begin with.

Werewolves: Can you believe I've never actually had a werewolf Sim? Sad but true. Anyway, I think if anyone is going to be writing a "Hairy Snout, Human Heart" in this universe, it's more likely to be a Peteran than a Jacoban. I can see Peterans running werewolf AA-style support groups for the Anguas of the world. Jacobans are more likely to be deeply suspicious - even if they technically permit Violence (against the right people) it doesn't mean they have to like it.

I think that's all the supernaturals. And believe it or not, I have ideas on the Pirate Code and Four Ideals. But 'tis bedtime for me, and my brain is sparking from running 60 clothing files through SimPE (decrunchify/repository/make BSOK ready). So, thank you for listening, and thank you once again, Hat, for this amazing addition to gameplay!!

Date: 2016-05-28 07:58 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Veetie here! I'd love to see that questionnaire, all worldbuilding aids are welcome - and glad to hear Rugrat0ne is working on re-adding the romantic/sexual Tenets :)

It's official: I worship Almighty Hat!

Date: 2016-04-30 09:03 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You have done such an awesome job of converting this mod-you won't believe how thrilled I am-because not that long ago I was hoping you'd do this-and you did it! I need this so badly for my Paradise Island neighborhood it's not funny.

Bless you and your co-horts for this mod. You will forever be worshiped for the true deity you are, Hat!

(since I don't have an Open ID, my real name is Fran from GOS..in case you wondered.)

I bow down to your awesomeness!


In fact...

Date: 2016-04-30 05:42 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'd made two community lots with the idea of an eventual religion for both of them (without any mods), hoping in the back of my mind that you were doing something about it.

"The Mystical Temple of Fire" which features the Jumbok Statue (and assorted things)

and

"The Temple of the Jade Buddhas" (a lot I'd downloaded from BPK a few weeks ago)

I'd written up all the information about each religion and was kinda in limbo about how to use them. This mod completes their formation.

For which I bless you totally. (and I'm spreading the word about this mod all over the place-I'm a good follower of yours, Hat!)-Fran

I'm amazed :)

Date: 2016-04-30 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jadesim
Thanks so much for sharing this(and thanks to your collaborators too). I never thought I'd be able to use any part of the original, and I looked on hopefully when you were working at this. It looks amazing, I'm designing my religious groups now (and trying to sort out any hack issues). This will add so much depth to the everyday life for my sims (and I can make some of the rules automatic, even better. I was already working on religion, but doing it all yourself gets hard to keep track of ).

Date: 2016-04-30 11:58 pm (UTC)
wakahisadmanami: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wakahisadmanami
This works perfectly in my UC so far!

I had some problems getting it set up; the Streak InTeen expansion caused endlessly looping 'invalid constant in Controller - Faith' errors that made the game unplayable. Everything seems to work fine now after removing it, however.

Date: 2016-05-01 09:37 am (UTC)
wakahisadmanami: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wakahisadmanami
The weird thing is that I don't have any teens either; the moment I loaded any family the errors would start.
I'm doing testing at the moment, trying different combinations of mods to see what exactly seems to be setting it off since I'm getting the same errors now without having the Streak expansion ...

I do have RiskySneakout, haven't tried removing that yet, but at the moment I'm wondering whether this could be a load order thing, I'm not sure.
I have your extra flavour packs in zzInteen, the expansion religion files in AlmightyHatReligion, then the mod itself in the main Downloads folder so it loads last, that seems to be working OK so far.

I'll keep testing.

Date: 2016-05-01 09:28 pm (UTC)
wakahisadmanami: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wakahisadmanami
I had BO's PhoneMakeover, removed that+a couple of prank and tantrum-related mods I'd forgot I had and things seem to be working OK.

Getting some weirdness with ACR, both your 2.0 controller and TJ's, not sure what that's about or related at all; will be testing that next. Happens both in a completely new 'hood and an older one; also Invalid Constant errors. Planning on using the BatBox to force errors on everything and see what happens.

I uploaded HCDU's current load order log here so you can take a look and my most recent force error generated logs here (both on Box; got the share link from the mobile site, I hope that'll work).
Edited Date: 2016-05-01 09:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-05-01 10:32 pm (UTC)
wakahisadmanami: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wakahisadmanami
IGNORE ME, IGNORE ME, I'M A DUMMY

I had LBFRemovesocial installed to get rid of the SuperDuberHug bug in case I had it and forgot to remove it afterwards. I'm so sorry; everything is working perfectly now. Thanks for helping a silly out.

Date: 2016-05-01 04:13 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Wow, this is impressive. Is there any way to add the original romantic tenets as well so you can have both?

Date: 2016-05-01 08:38 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Cool, thanks. And thank you for fixing the nun, too. Seriously ... Sister Cheeky? *facepalm*

Date: 2016-05-02 05:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cupcaketacular.livejournal.com
This is so super awesome, something I have been wanting for my hood for quite a while.

I love all the ideas shared for religions, too - I'm not the most creative so I always borrow bits and pieces, and you are always so informative!

Thank you :)

Cupcakeyy/Simbury

Date: 2016-05-02 02:39 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hi Hat, this is Veetie - great job on the mod, glad I could help!

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I started thinking about what other custom interactions to link in, and one thing led to another and I've just successfully added two new Tenets to the mod!

What I thought was that some Religions may ban drinking from bars or any of the custom jugs of glug I've got in my CC hoard, and also perhaps the bubble blower falls under similar logic. I also thought of a way to tie in prayable objects - couldn't get them to boost Faith but I could link them to a Tenet that allows or disallows praying to little stone thingamajigs. So I have added Intoxication and Idolatry as Tenets to my download of the mod - just linking some Maxis and custom interactions in now!

...I'm excited that I got it working on the second go. Can you tell?

Date: 2016-05-02 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I started at 11, and thank you!

Date: 2016-05-02 09:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
But my deity forbids going to the bathroom! ;)

Honestly, so far I haven't made much progress, but glad to hear someone else did. I got so into creating gods and goddesses for a test run, that I haven't even set up my test game yet. Still finding outfits and such. lol

rugs

Date: 2016-05-02 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
[from http://dominiquex.livejournal.com/]

THIS IS FANTASTIC! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK AND FORETHOUGHT!!!

My main neighborhood (many years in the re-making after a crash) has many actual god-beings living in it... I'm curious, if the deity is interactable (not a toddler or jail-modded), do other sims react to them any differently?

Just a thought for those who were concerned, would it not be possible to jury-rig some head-cannonish religious tenets regarding romantic interactions through selectively using the InTeen controller to set individual adherents' romantic settings? And for reactions to non-humans (vampire/werewolves/plantsims/zombies), through the turn-on/-offs?

Quick warning from Veetie

Date: 2016-08-25 12:55 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Just to let everyone know - if anyone is using BoilingOil's Phone Makeover mod from Leefish in addition to this, DON'T. In my experience that causes:
- Inability to set up Religions and Tenets
- Constant resets while the fairy is on the lot
- Dormies in uni subhoods doing the same constant reset thing
I have only just figured out what was causing the conflict and I'm here to warn any other users about it :)
Veetie

More than 5 Religions

Date: 2016-09-10 09:14 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'm sure I'm missing something, or being particularly obtuse, but I can't seen to get more than five religions working in game. I can set them up on the fairy and it all seems to be there, but I can't set anyone to one of the extra religions, except in the house I first set the extra religions up in.

Here's what I did.

Went into am occupied residential lot, set up the first five religions and gave a religion to the household.

Used the Fairy to create 5 extra religions, set them all up.

Switched the current household to one of the extra religions

Onto house 2 and With the first pop up I only had the first five, so gave the house one of those, and then went to the Fairy to change it to the extra one I wanted them to be, but the only options I get with "Change my faith to..." are the first five.

Prayer Objects

Date: 2016-10-23 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hi Hat!

First, I'm afraid I haven't thanked you for this awsome mod. I use it all the time and it really adds great benefits to my game!

I found out how to make objects that increase faith/zeal.

To increase zeal, add the line [prim 0x0002] Expression (My person data 0x0096 (i: Unused) += Literal 0x0001) -> you can replace "Literal 0x0001 with any other number)

To increase faith, add the line [prim 0x0002] Expression (My person data 0x0097 (i: Unused) += Literal 0x0001) -> same

That's it!

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